that's what we've been doing. do you know what's up next? >> chuck todd. >> and "the daily rundown." chuck, take it away on time. >> thank you, gentlemen. and lady. the 12 days of cliffness. president obama and treasury secretary to make his case while the president himself negotiators his kay way through 18 holes and a black tie bash. speaker boehner sums up with where things are with the word of the week, nowhere. a big fight brewing over republicans ratifying a u.n. treaty to help people with disabilities that's based on a u.s. law signed by a republican president. find out how a republican attorney general plan to overcome the opposition.

>> president obama pile on praise that sounds like anything but. a farewell for hillary clinton. i'm fighting a fiscal cough, so pardon that. if it's always darkest. it's clear the white house-re house-republican leaders, both sides appear to be very far apart, saluting kennedy center honorees from dustin hoffman to led zeppelin and hitting the golf links with former president bill clinton. the guy with whom he will have to make a deal to end the standoff on the fiscal cliff house speaker john boehner requested time on fox news to publicly declare the president's opening bid a nonstarter.

>> i was flabbergasted. we're nowhere. >> treasury secretary tim geithner did the full ginsberg with taped appearances on all five shows. nothing will happen until budget tax rates and the ball is now in their court. >> the only thing that stands in the way of a deal right now is if a group of republican members decide there have been a block because they can't afford the wealthiest 2% of americans. >> how much is theater and how much are the two sides locked into positions that remain far apart? the president's plan called for higher tax rates on the

wealthiest americans to the tune of $1.6 trillion over ten years along with the combination of new spending and some spending cuts. mitch mcconnell said he, quote, burst into laughter. still, the white house is making it clear until the republicans counteroffer. >> we didn't say how or how much or who should pay. >> there are a lot of items on the table. the president knows what they are. the question is, what are they willing to do? >> at midnight the clock runs out. taxes will go up on everybody. and republicans will instead be in a position of voting against middle class tax cuts. democrats bring such a bill to the floor. on sunday house minority leader signaled democrats may not wait saying in a statement, quote, if speaker boehner refuses to schedule this widely supported bill for a vote on democrats for a vote, democrats will introduce a discharged petition to

automatically bring to the floor the senate passed middle class tax cuts bill, that bill that would pass the 98% automatically raise the rates to the clinton era for the top 2%. ultimately he has to bring out the best deal. this new negotiation strategy. it appears to have genuinely thrown republicans for a loop. >> the idea of a negotiation is roll over and do what i ask. >> i think we're going over the cliff. it's pretty clear to me they made a political calculation. the plan to entitlement reform is quite frankly a joke. >> a two-step deal in place.

step one spending cuts and tax changes that would take effect in january. step two, which the white house wants to be wrapped up in august would be long er term entitlemet changes and tax reform. the problem is neither side wants to own entitle lments. if entitlements are going to be on table, the gop will have to own that plan. mitch mcconnell laid out an opening gop offer friday including inkraesing the medicare eligibility age, higher premiums for the wealthy and slowing cost of living increases. some seem open to means testing on medicare. >> more aggressive planes testing, higher co-pays for those who can afford it. donald trump may need medication but he certainly doesn't need the government to pay for it.

debt ceiling talks in the summer of 2011 geithner again ruled that out. >> not as part of a process to reduce the deficit the others face. >> republicans don't like owning reform either. this was tom cole on sunday. >> only obama can fix entitlements. democrat versus democrat fight over entitlement which mirrors their fighting over taxes. a response to an argument that was starting before former adviser steve ratner and minnesota democratic congressman keith ellison with near glee. there is no real choice about that.

we're clear social security is off the table. this is, to me, the much more interesting debate between tom and dan. >> you want republicans arguing. both sides are also battling for control of the debt ceiling which may represent the republicans' greatest point of leverage in these budget talks. goo the speaker of the house says that's a nonstarter. >> silliness. congress will never give up the power. i've made it clear to the president. we need cuts in reform greater than the increase in the debt limit. >> bottom line, you've got to put a detailed plan on the table

that the white house ends up agreeing to some of it, rejects some of it in the same way the white house is arguably overplaying their hand on taxes. the question is whether you're going to see two full fledged plans be put on the table. republicans for now, including speaker boehner and mitch mcconnell both say, hey, all these plans are familiar to the white house. we shouldn't have to put them on the table. i think the white house would like to see them own it a little more publicly. a lot of aides in the white house would like to get this issue out the door. though ambassador susan rice's reintroduction did not go so well, all sides point to her being able to is your vsurvive nomination fight. is this a fight worth having for the president? >> i know this, what has

happened to susan rice is terribly unfair. >> i don't think she will be nominated. but i told people, certainly i will give her a fair hearing. i do think that the underlying issue here is people have seen her far more as a political operative and not a principle. >> hillary clinton has largely avoided blame when it comes to benghazi. >> the next thing graham wants to talk about is why for seven hours on september 11 we can could not reinforce the event. we could not get into the details of how they died and why we left our consulate. >> what went wrong is decision makers did not make the right security call. it's gross negligence. >> the main speaker at the conference focused on the middle

east as hosted by israeli american savonne. benjamin netanyahu to libney and american political rivals from senator john mccain to the president. praised clinton in a more than ten-minute video tribute. take a look at this. >> strength, toughness, very strong streak of principle. >> i had the opportunity to work with her, to achieve ceasefire between israel and hamas. >> a strong and determined leader. >> politics as a mother, as a senator, the pinnacle up to now of her public service. >> one of the best secretary of states in american history and finally, hillary, a lot has been said about our relationship and here is what i know. you haven't just within one of my closest partners, you've become a great friend.

>> yet this was not it at the 2016 convention yet. for those wondering if clinton may have politics in her faw tour listen to how the video wrapped up and secretary clinton's reaction. >> on the side of human rights, human dignity. more countries may have the same extraordinary good fortune that we've had. >> someone who knows a thing or two about political comeback, i can tell you i don't think we've heard the last of hillary clinton. ♪ girl, you're amazing just the way you are ♪ >> i just have an instinct the best is yet to come. >> i prepared some remarks are for tonight, but then i thought maybe we could just watch that video a few more times. and then the next time i could count the hair styles which, you know, is one of my favorite pastimes. i think i now know what it feels like to be one of the mighty

morphin power rangers. >> actually what she really should have said is i'm hillary clinton and i approve this me message. up next, how a treaty intended to protect the rights of people with disabilities is showcasing an angel divide in the republican party. plus, we're expecting some breaking news this hour. will the supreme court agree to take up the issue of gay marriage and how did it plan on taking it up? we can find out any minute. we're going to be live at the supreme court. and could going over the fiscal cliff actually be the fiscally smart move? a deep dive into what a cliff dive means for washington and millions of american families. but first, a look ahead at the president's schedule today. a public speech today at the threat reduction symposium. some interesting remarks about dick lugar, i'm sure. also more about nuclear proliferation. perhaps iran. should be interesting, an interesting speech to watch and

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i want to bring something to your attention that's not gotten a lot of attention. a senate vote on a united nations disability treaty that will showcase a long-standing divide between two wings of the republican party, internationals who support the effort and isolationists who lead the opposition. with me now are two advocates for this treaty. pennsylvania republican governor dick thornberg and lifelong advocate for disability rights, ted kennedy jr. he's also founder and president of the lemar wood group.

mr. thornberg, let me start with you. explain what this treaty is and why it's important. and make your case why it's important to sign on to it? >> this extends to 650 million people around the world. that's the model. and it's important to maintain america's lead ership position n this important human rights issue. it's important for us to continue to be a role model for nations around the world who are not providing the opportunities and guaranteeing the rights. >> like all treaties, this has to be ratified by the united states senate. you need a, i believe, two-thirds, to get this ratified, so you need 66 votes here. explain some of the opposition

and what do you understand and are trying to push back gently on? >> first, it's terrific to be on your show, truck. i appreciate you bringing attention to this watershed moment in this area of disability and human rights and i'm thrilled to be here with my long time friend governor dick thornberg with whom i've worked on disability rights issues for over 25 years. this issue voted out of the foreign relations committee, 13-6. i think if you took a vote to abolish the united nations, you would have, unfortunately, we're wrapped up in this.

ensuring people with disabilities are afforded the same rights and opportunities as everyone else. we cannot abandon our post. it will send a terrible signal to the world that we're not up to this and i think that we have that moral issue that i think people understand, and that's why we're grateful that so many republicans have joined with so many democrats and really what should be a nonpartisan issue. it could send a terrible signal to the world we're mired in partisan political gridlock and that's not what this has been all about. >> i look at the divide. john mccain.

mike lee and pat toomey who are against this. >> i think opponents of the treaty that gives the u.n. no authority over the united states or our citizens. it requires no new legislation. it requires no change in existing legislation. it doesn't require a single cent in appropriations to support its enactment. a leadership role worldwide in this important human rights area. to our own citizenry who support and are engaged in enacting the guarantees of americans in

disabilities act. they have already ratified including countries like china that are not really known for their human rights being in the vanguard of human rights including many of our staunchest allies around the world. chuck, this treaty has been endorsed by 21 of the leading veterans groups. they understand that this is good for american business. we've made tremendous investments in our country to enhance opportunities for people with disabilities. we're asking the rest to come up to this standard. this is in the perfect view of the united states, companies

doing business in the united states. not only is it good for business but affords the same rights as u.s. citizens when he they travel abroad than they have here at home. >> is there any way legally companies are concerned that they would come under international law? is that what some of the senators are arguing? >> they're arguing that, i think, but it's a misrepresentation of what this convention is about. most are subject to the disabilities act with regard to their operations. and what they are already subject to in the u.s.

>> if there's as many, mr. can kennedy, as 34 or 35 republican senators opposing this treaty would you rather harry reid postpone the vote and kick it to the next senate if it can't pass now? is. >> well, i'll leave that up to majority leader reid. we know we have our work cut out and, chuck, we are making calls to senators in every single office on capitol hill. this is a bipartisan issue. this was initiated by george herbert walker bush. we've enjoyed tremendous support. there's no reason in the world why we can't pass this treaty in the united states senate tomorrow. if this did not have the word

united nations in it would it -- >> chuck, i worked at the united nations and i know it's far from perfect. >> you see the name and it makes some folks -- >> well, it's foolish. i think you have to look at the substance of what this treaty provides, match it with what our commitment is and the americans with disability act. >> nice to see you. thank you both for being on. how much is wall street paying attention to the fiscal cliff nonsense this week. the market rundown is next. hillary clinton issues a new issue to syria not to use chemical weapons. are they worried about something? and rocking the white house, why the president is mixing it up with led zeppelin.

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on our radar this morning, big news on who will and who wants to run the two parties next year. new numbers show who is getting the highest marks for handling the sandy storm damage and mayor booker puts his stamp on a big devat. first the white house stressed again it would not accept the use of any chemical weapons in s syria. secretary of state hillary clinton called it a red line for the united states.

>> i'm not going to telegraph what we would do that the regime has resorted to using chemical weapons but we are certainly planning to take action if that is a very strong warning to the assad regime that their behavior is reprehensible. >> clinton did not say if the u.s. had any new evidence to suggest they are planning to use a stockpile of missiles they are believed to have.

watts told politico the defeat is evidence that their party needs to broaden its appeal to minority voters. priebus has announced he is seeking a second term. party insiders say out of the 168 votes from members who get to pick, he has 130 of those locked up publicly. nbc news has learned president obama will ask the dnc to approve keeping debbie wasserman schultz as chair. the fact the president carries her home state might have helped her cause. 23% gave president obama an excellent rating, 18% said the same for cuomo and both bloomberg and fema got 14% excellence ratings.

cory booker is taking part in what he has labelled as the food stamp challenge. he will only eat what food stamps can provide, $4 a meal. a back and forth twitter exchange about the role in funding school breakfast and lunch programs. finally the kennedy center hohnr honore honorees. actor dustin hoffman, buddy guy and a balance lerina all in attendance in the east room event. >> it's different when you're not the one with the mike, isn't it, dave? you're looking a little stressed. >> led zeppelin.

henry mancini and led zeppelin have the kennedy center honoree thing in common. oy. the markets will keep watching the slow going fiscal cliff negotiations today. how will wall street react to the latest maneuvering? to the market rundown. we'll let you know when to pay attention. is that still the case? >> i have to admit 28 days and counting. >> if we're in the same place in two weeks, i'll be nervous. >> the 15th they have to have a deal. >> it's nothing. >> it is if you want companies to deal with what this is going to mean in terms of taxes. i'm starting to sweat this out. we spoke with jim o'neill of goldman sachs, a great voice,

comes to us from london. this is the first time that he's seen international investors raising their browse a bit, taking and moving their money. they are starting to sit up and take notice and that's a big issue. they're losing confidence in what's happening in washington, that's a really big deal. that made me set up and pay attention and, i don't know, i realize that this is all politics at this point. you have to remember what this looks like to the international community. we can't get things together. can't get our act in shape. >> remember what winston churchill said. defensem democracy is the worst idea. >> and that the americans will try everything else before they finally try and do the right thing. you may be getting older. i'm not. >> that's fine, that's fine.

led zeppelin just feels -- that's supposed to be like dean martin -- >> justin bieber next year. >> not led zeppelin. anyway. all right. up next a jump off the fiscal cliff. the latest way -- the fastest way to a solution on the debt. all the numbers indicate that going off the fiscal cliff would hurt the u.s. economy in the short term.

but could it be the best thing in the long run? going off that fiscal cliff. to this point most of the conversation has been focused on what happens in january, and for good reason. there's no deal in congress. tax rates go up for a lot of folks, all americans. and a $1.2 trillion worth of defense and spending cuts will be automatically enacted. excuse me, that fiscal cough i told you about. the alternative minimum tax kicks in and put it all together and the results are pretty. the economy would contract by half a percent in 2013. unemployment would raise to 9.1% and the economy would experience what cbo said would be judged as a recession. but after that, then things start to look pretty good. the cbo says after next year by the agency's estimates economic

growth will pick up. the labor market will strengthen returning output to its potential level. 5.5% by 2018. essentially if no deal is struck, the federal government would be forced to do what it's refused to do willingly, make dramatic changes in taxes and spending. if those changes happen automatically, the cbo estimates it would have a positive long-term impact. by comparison, it says current law is kept in place, output and income would be lower down the road. so here is another way to look at it. fast forward to budget projections. keeping tax cuts in place, extending most tax provisions and putting off spending cuts would put revenue in 2020 at 4dz.2 trillion. spending at $5.3 trillion. the national debt is projected to be near $20 trillion by then. $3 trillion higher than it is now. but if tax rates go up and spending cuts kick in, you

erevenue higher in 2020. $4.8 trillion. that nearly matches spending. puts the national debt at $14 trillion. that's $2 trillion less than it is now. so by another measure without going over the cliff, the national debt would average about 5% of gdp over the next ten years. with the fiscal cliff, just over 1%. so with both sides at an impasse, is it better to go off the fiscal cliff or let congress kick the can down the road and face the same kind of economic hand wringing a year or two from now? the president of the conservative group freedom works joins me now. i know you're in a big conference. there is an interesting coalition, if you will, of very conservative deficit hawks and very liberal deficit hawks, if you will, who might come together and say, you know what, let the country go off the cliff. lack at those five-year projections. isn't this about short term

versus long term? what do you say and what do you think your members would say? >> the best thing is to do something our spending problem and barring anything else, doing the automatic cuts that congress promised last year when they raised the debt ceiling would be better than doing nothing. it's separate from the ougautomc tax increase that happens on january 1. our preferred strategy here would be to accept the sequester now knowing that congress is not going to do something more rational. they're not going to take on more fundamental spending reforms and push off increasing taxes. and let's have a ration conversation about fundamental tax reform in the first six months of next year. nothing congress does in this panic is going to be rational public policy regardless of ideology. >> isn't it fair to say no matter what, both sides are worried about their own politics rather than thinking about, okay, what is the long term --

the country in five years, nobody seems to be talking about what will be the fiscal outlook of the country in five years. >> politics always defines our budgetary decisions. we're talking about a u.s. senate that hasn't even passed a budget resolution in three years and that's a politically defined outcome. i think the sense of this has to be that congress is unable to do the things that are basic priorities and we'll have to push this from the outside. >> let's talk about what lessons your group took from 2012 and how you plan to -- do you plan to make any changes and what would you like to see done, and do you think conservatives and republ republicans can continue living under the tent of the republican party? >> we met with about 120 activists and tea party leaders from across the country all weekend. and we had some tough conversations about what we did wrong. what we did right.

our sense is that 2012 was very much a beauty contest between mitt romney and barack obama. all of the issues that mattered so much in the 2010 election like health care, we didn't have that conversation. we think it should be a choice between fiscal responsibility and patient control over health care versus a bigger government solution. i think we could win that fight and i think 2014 is going to be more about issues and there's opportunities, i think, to increase the gains that we made in 2010. >> well, midterm elections are one thing and what -- and it's possible you could win arguments, but when more people vote, is it harder to win this conservative argument? >> well, mitt romney was hardly part of this new generation of fiscally responsible republicans that we've been repopulating the party with, but if you look forward to 2016, you're talking about some pretty interesting young dynamic people like marco

rubio and rand paul and maybe scott walker. these are all political leaders in the republican party that weren't there when mitt romney and john mccain before him got into the queue and said, hey, it's my turn to run for president. >> all right. from freedom works, i know you're doing a big conference this week. we'll be checking in with you again. thanks for coming on this morning. >> thanks, chuck. developing now the supreme court took no action today on the pending gay marriage cases. justice correspondent pete williams is live for us at the supreme court. this is now two weeks in a row, pete, that we thought we would get an answer to them about how they would plan on taking up this question of gay marriage. >> right. two case, the defense of marriage act and proposition 8 from california. nothing on the orders list today. so we'll find out later today whether the court is going to take it up again at its closed door conference on this friday. so my guess is this friday will be the next day we'll find out whether or not they'll take either of these two cases, chuck. >> and, pete, your expectation

is can they put it all into one case or -- >> reporter: no, they can't. they're completely separate issues. the defense of marriage act is a federal law. it says nothing about whether states have to recognize gay marriage. it just says that if they do the federal government won't recognize them. the prop 8 case potentially raises a much more fundamental issue whether a state can deny same-sex marriage. the court could decide it on much more narrow grounds. >> pete, neither case could find a path to legalize gay marriage on a federal level? >> reporter: you know, that's not clear. if they take the proposition 8 case from california, when the trial judge decided the case, he said as a matter of the federal constitution, a state cannot deny same sex couples the rate to get married. now when the appeals court ruled, it did so on a much more

narrow only grounds. there is always the possibility they could get to the bedrock issue. >> there is a way. >> reporter: right, there is a path. >> pete williams at the supreme court, thank you, pete. >> reporter: you bet. our gaggle will be here next to kick off the week. but first the white house soup of the day. kind of a low key day, tomato basil. nothing too spicy. the slow start it to the fiscal talks here in the first full week of december. don't forget to follow the show on facebook. and on twitter, all sorts of ways. [ nyquil bottle ] you know i relieve coughs, sneezing, fevers... [ tylenol bottle ] me too! and nasal congestion. [ tissue box ] he said nasal congestion.

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a deal will get done before the end of the year. >> do you think we'll get a deal by the end of the year? >> i do. the only thing standing in the way of that would be a refusal by republicans to accept that rates will have to go up on the wealthiest americans. >> i would say we're nowhere, period, we're nowhere. >> let's bring in our monday gaggle. clarence thomas, kristen solstice, and jech from "the new york times." clarence thomas, the one person here who was there when led zeppelin got it started. i'm sorry. i'm shaken by led zeppelin as a kennedy center honor yae. >> i saw them warm up for luciano in 1969. >> and probably has been honored at the kennedy center. >> i want to tell you. >> you've seen a lot of these end of the year negotiations. do you feel as if you've seen this movie before or are things

different this time? >> what's interesting this time is barack obama has been re-elected and he's obviously feeling his oats because he's moved back to his earlier position in terms of negotiating points that in the past his own left wing had criticized him for giving up too soon. >> right. >> and you could tell both sides are dug in because neither is talking to each other, talking to the american public. and this is a pr game. >> and, kristen, you've done some work for the house republicans conference. and there are ways where you are making the argument and help polling that makes the argument raising tax rates are not what the american public wants. they agree on seeing the rich pay more but don't do it via rates that scares them off. is that polling data -- it seems like it's a tough message for the republicans. >> it is a tough message for republicans. so i think they're conceding we need to have more revenue come from somewhere.

the question is, are all dollars of revenue treated equally? and the problem now is while speaker boehner wants to put ref gnaw on the table, democrats have a lot of push back about where it's coming from. the data that we've shown shows voters want to see if revenue can come from making the tax code simpler, that's great. >> if santa claus existed, that would be right, too? do the numbers. does boehner need to produce a more detailed plan that proves that he's right? >> at least in negotiations they need to show where is this money going to come from. but if the numbers add up and you can prove they will come from closing the loopholes. what we've seen now is this idea that, unfortunately, democrats pushed throughout the election. if we just ask the wealthy to pay more that will balance our budget and if those numbers don't add up either. the trouble is our nation is in such a tough fiscal situation we can't do it by just raising rates on the top 2%. >> when it comes to entitlements, we're not putting

a plan on the table. if you want it, you put it on the table. >> that's what we're seeing. the white house is fully aware of having its open problem with democrats on this. >> so they don't want to own it. >> they don't want to own it. at the end of the day some of the burden is on this white house, on this president to convince some democrats to come along. it is only december 3. it of early for panic button. i think we'll see the week before christmas, perhaps, even the week between the holidays for something to get done. there's still a big need on both sides to make a deal here and i think they will. >> so the president is not listening to communication. >> he's golfing. >> the president acted -- all right. when we come back i want to talk about the republicans and that hillary clinton convention. that tribute video. our question we asked how many sitting senators have served continuously since they were first elected. the answer is 90. there are two senators who had a

break in their service. one is new jersey's frank lautenberg who was elected in 1982, retired in 2001. then came back two years lates. senator dan coats, he changed his mind about retirement and re-elected in 2010. george allen tried to join that club but didn't make it. if you have a trivia question, e-mail us at dailyrundown dailyrundown@msnbc.com. ... nothing transforms schools like investing in advanced teacher education. let's build a strong foundation. let's invest in our teachers so they can inspire our students. let's solve this.

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let's bring back our panel. jeff, that tribute video hillary clinton and i know we're going to get hilary 2016 stories. they with will churn out as soon as the president names whoever he names to replace her. she seemed almost energized by it. >> how could she not.

this is the celebration of her long life. not an easy one her public life. she's ending at a high point here. 2013 is going to be filled for, at least people in our business a lot of chatter about what she's going to do or not going to do. i believe she doesn't know. let her take a break. >> that i buy. yes people around her will put together the operation. >> just watching that it reminds you with john mccain on tape like that, it is really -- she would be a powerful force. >> it's a reminder that we might get clinton-bush the sequel. at the end of the day, right? who else do the republicans have? who would make a better transitional leader from 20th century. the guy who is married to a mexican-american. >> i'm an enormous fan of jeb bush. i think he would be fantastic. his son george p. is exploring for a run down in texas. he may ultimately be.

>> this hilary thing she seems like the only one that could actually build on obama's coalition. she could get older voters to come over, older women even if she loses the intensity. >> that's a problem for democrats in the past having continuity after you have somebody like bill clinton to pull people together with that same kind of power. hilary can do it more than anybody else on the horizon. >> fdr and truman. shameless pollution? >> ken burns movie "central park 5." see it. i remember the frenzy back in 1989 over that central park jogger case and then what 13 years later it turns out the wrong kids were incarcerated. says a lot about our society. >> kristen. >> an analysis of what we think happened in the election. we did a survey on election night of 1,000 people who turned out to the polls. we'll roll out those results.

>> christmas charities in the washington, d.c. area but i record s.o.m.e., so others may eat. >> we'll see you back here tomorrow. coming up, chris jansing. bye.

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